Can't say I've ever had a problem with L.E.L, Multipulse starters.....
FG, Eagle & Criterion starters are universally shit to the point that if I ever find anything like that in a fitting it goes in the bin, regardless if it works or not.
The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
- Slyspark
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Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
Bad choices make good stories!
- Flurofan96
- Posts: 110
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- Location: Reading
Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
Oh crikey, the Ring fluorescent fixture in my office room at my parents house has got an OSRAM ST 111 starter should I swap it for something else?
- dor123
- Posts: 144
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Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
Osram St111: The latest ones in the storage of Carmel hospital before the T5 makeover, often didn't struck their glow bottle immediately, and they would stuck on good lamps and frying them.
Also: They would stuck on EOL 40W T12 lamps.
Also: They would stuck on EOL 40W T12 lamps.
I love see run-up and hot restrike of HID lamps, mainly on timed ignitors, and spectra of metal halide lamps.
- Flurofan96
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:01 am
- Location: Reading
Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
@dor123: That is not good at all! I'll be avoiding these OSRAM ST111 starters. Thank goodness I bought a bulk of starters that are both GE and Philips S10 earlier ago this year
So far I don't see any issue with the ST111 starter in my office room 36W fixture but I will replace it if it starts to show signs of getting stuck or any signs of wear n tear
So far I don't see any issue with the ST111 starter in my office room 36W fixture but I will replace it if it starts to show signs of getting stuck or any signs of wear n tear
- Ash
- Posts: 387
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:42 pm
Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
To put things to scale, ST111 (Germany) are still some of the best starters out there. (Not much else to put them up against tbh, Philips are better but are the only real competition, and that was already the case before ST111 production ceased...)
The fact a starter fails while flashing with an EOL lamp says nothing, the starter is not meant to survive an EOL lamp
Some starters would tend to survive T12's (which rectify so make less blinks, and also blow the cathodes faster than T8), but how many tube EOLs have a particular starter already survived one can only guess. Besides, there are virtually no switchstart T12 lighting (in the 4..65W range) nowadays, and T8's will destroy any starter anytime
They had a few issues with the capacitors shorting out randomly, but even with that they still fare far better than most other starters
Some starters have varying photosensitivity levels, but as long as it strikes in a couple seconds it's not a concern. (Unless they go into some underground shelter that stays dark and unused for years at a time)
Now here is what really bad starters are about :
In the late 90s (me in elementary school) watching the school janitor relamping
He replaces a tube, takes a new starter out of the box and puts in the fitting (Afula 101 fittings, starters fully accessible with the tubes in place). Nothing happens. He twists the tube in the sockets, tries to reseat the starter, nothing. Out goes the new starter, and is thrown (in a wide arc off the top of the ladder) to the bin across the room
Another starter, nothing
Another starter, it glows bright red.. And just keeps glowing..... Then pops and nothing
Another starter, stuck out of the box
....
You get the idea
The N-th starter finally works. Not for long tho - It fails later towards the end of the school year. (Soon enough our janitor learned that there is usually nothing wrong with the early 90s Osram ST111's with the black print, and in most cases there is no need to replace them when a T12 tube is replaced - just wait a few more seconds for the starter to catch up)
When time comes to replace it, the starter (which had been exposed to UV for all this time) crumbles to thin dust in hand. If you are not careful you can easily finger the glow lamp or capacitor wires inside
In another school in town, they used old open back fittings (with plunger sockets and loudly buzzing open core ballasts from the 70s), in which the starter is behind the end of the tube (like in many weather packs), and only its top is accessible. The cheap starter crumbles as attempt is made to retrieve it from the fitting
After a minute of digging in the hole with needle nose pliers still no starter extracted, as the plastic base of the starter (where other starters use FR-2 or similar material) bent out of shape due to the pressure of the contacts in the starter socket, bending the starter pins towards each other, and now the starter grabbed the center part of the body of the starter socket with its pins
After taking down the fitting from the ceiling, while it still hangs on the wires (those old fittings have been awful to install or work on if you had to reach inside), popping open the back cover of the starter socket and poking the starter out with a screwdriver from the back, a new starter can finally be fitted
On the inside those starters had glow lamps of a wacky bent-tip hand pinched shape, very obviously hand pinched from a glass tube with needle nose pliers or tweezers. Every one was a little different from the other, and many of them had production defects -
Cracked and air leaked near the pinch (most common)
Glass towards the pinch-off tip comes in contact with the bend of the bimetal strip and restricts its movement (to the point where it may crack the glass when it heats up and tries to deform)
Wires crossed inside the pinch
.....
Recently i found a few 70s/80s switchstart fittings from a place that had been standing partially abandoned for a long while, and now got LEDed. The fittings have a few types of tubes and starters in them, and a few are those same ones from above
I needed another light at the back of my storage barn and quickly wired up one of those old fittings, with 2 new tubes (Osram Basic Plus 36W/765) but have left the existing starters - One of which is of the above type
The starter came to life immediately, glowing bright neon red near its top. The glow then shifted towards the starter bottom. It shifted a couple more times before the top and bottom before the starter extinguished and the tube started preheating. It started normally with a few blinks from the tube and starter
(The other starter in that fitting is of another type - also a 90s cheapie but a better one. It took nearly a minute from power on to any reaction, but then suddenly flashed and started the tube ok as well)
The fact a starter fails while flashing with an EOL lamp says nothing, the starter is not meant to survive an EOL lamp
Some starters would tend to survive T12's (which rectify so make less blinks, and also blow the cathodes faster than T8), but how many tube EOLs have a particular starter already survived one can only guess. Besides, there are virtually no switchstart T12 lighting (in the 4..65W range) nowadays, and T8's will destroy any starter anytime
They had a few issues with the capacitors shorting out randomly, but even with that they still fare far better than most other starters
Some starters have varying photosensitivity levels, but as long as it strikes in a couple seconds it's not a concern. (Unless they go into some underground shelter that stays dark and unused for years at a time)
Now here is what really bad starters are about :
In the late 90s (me in elementary school) watching the school janitor relamping
He replaces a tube, takes a new starter out of the box and puts in the fitting (Afula 101 fittings, starters fully accessible with the tubes in place). Nothing happens. He twists the tube in the sockets, tries to reseat the starter, nothing. Out goes the new starter, and is thrown (in a wide arc off the top of the ladder) to the bin across the room
Another starter, nothing
Another starter, it glows bright red.. And just keeps glowing..... Then pops and nothing
Another starter, stuck out of the box
....
You get the idea
The N-th starter finally works. Not for long tho - It fails later towards the end of the school year. (Soon enough our janitor learned that there is usually nothing wrong with the early 90s Osram ST111's with the black print, and in most cases there is no need to replace them when a T12 tube is replaced - just wait a few more seconds for the starter to catch up)
When time comes to replace it, the starter (which had been exposed to UV for all this time) crumbles to thin dust in hand. If you are not careful you can easily finger the glow lamp or capacitor wires inside
In another school in town, they used old open back fittings (with plunger sockets and loudly buzzing open core ballasts from the 70s), in which the starter is behind the end of the tube (like in many weather packs), and only its top is accessible. The cheap starter crumbles as attempt is made to retrieve it from the fitting
After a minute of digging in the hole with needle nose pliers still no starter extracted, as the plastic base of the starter (where other starters use FR-2 or similar material) bent out of shape due to the pressure of the contacts in the starter socket, bending the starter pins towards each other, and now the starter grabbed the center part of the body of the starter socket with its pins
After taking down the fitting from the ceiling, while it still hangs on the wires (those old fittings have been awful to install or work on if you had to reach inside), popping open the back cover of the starter socket and poking the starter out with a screwdriver from the back, a new starter can finally be fitted
On the inside those starters had glow lamps of a wacky bent-tip hand pinched shape, very obviously hand pinched from a glass tube with needle nose pliers or tweezers. Every one was a little different from the other, and many of them had production defects -
Cracked and air leaked near the pinch (most common)
Glass towards the pinch-off tip comes in contact with the bend of the bimetal strip and restricts its movement (to the point where it may crack the glass when it heats up and tries to deform)
Wires crossed inside the pinch
.....
Recently i found a few 70s/80s switchstart fittings from a place that had been standing partially abandoned for a long while, and now got LEDed. The fittings have a few types of tubes and starters in them, and a few are those same ones from above
I needed another light at the back of my storage barn and quickly wired up one of those old fittings, with 2 new tubes (Osram Basic Plus 36W/765) but have left the existing starters - One of which is of the above type
The starter came to life immediately, glowing bright neon red near its top. The glow then shifted towards the starter bottom. It shifted a couple more times before the top and bottom before the starter extinguished and the tube started preheating. It started normally with a few blinks from the tube and starter
(The other starter in that fitting is of another type - also a 90s cheapie but a better one. It took nearly a minute from power on to any reaction, but then suddenly flashed and started the tube ok as well)
- Flurofan96
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:01 am
- Location: Reading
Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
That explains why I had no problem with the ST111 starters so far - I will still use them over any cheapo chinese made ones (though I got some which I will need to use up or use them temporary until I get more proper starters)
Don't worry I will make sure to quickly turn off the fluorescent fixture if a Chinese starter fails
Don't worry I will make sure to quickly turn off the fluorescent fixture if a Chinese starter fails
- Ash
- Posts: 387
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:42 pm
Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
Being no longer made, i bought some of the remaining stock of German ST111 and ST151 from my local shops in around 2020/21 - To keep for low use, high reliability sort of places
Throughout all of the 00s and most of the 10s the Osram were by far the most common starters everywhere around here, so i have several more in fittings which i saved. (The latest of which - in weather packs that were replaced in air raid shelters around here at the beginning of the war we are in. Quite a few S10's there also, and a few cheapies)
Currently our shops have "ST111 Longlife" -
They look on the outside more similar to the 80s Osram starters, with the more standard starter case and standard print on the side, allthough the case plastic is different, i'd say it is similar to the latest GE 155/500 or Hn H-1X
They are made in China, possibly they are in fact GE or Hn, which possibly are in turn the Osram ST111C or Thorn 155/500/X with an updated case
The case plastic is better than those that crumble, and the glow bottle is as much as can be expected from a modern cylinder glow bottle with IU shaped contacts inside and a mystery-purple-white discharge gas fill
I have a couple of those in use currently and have not used them sufficiently to get any further conclusions
Throughout all of the 00s and most of the 10s the Osram were by far the most common starters everywhere around here, so i have several more in fittings which i saved. (The latest of which - in weather packs that were replaced in air raid shelters around here at the beginning of the war we are in. Quite a few S10's there also, and a few cheapies)
Currently our shops have "ST111 Longlife" -
They look on the outside more similar to the 80s Osram starters, with the more standard starter case and standard print on the side, allthough the case plastic is different, i'd say it is similar to the latest GE 155/500 or Hn H-1X
They are made in China, possibly they are in fact GE or Hn, which possibly are in turn the Osram ST111C or Thorn 155/500/X with an updated case
The case plastic is better than those that crumble, and the glow bottle is as much as can be expected from a modern cylinder glow bottle with IU shaped contacts inside and a mystery-purple-white discharge gas fill
I have a couple of those in use currently and have not used them sufficiently to get any further conclusions
- Flurofan96
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:01 am
- Location: Reading
Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
What do they use now in the air raid shelters? LED? Anyhow great job on saving the fixtures with the OSRAM ST111 starters and other high quality ones
- Ash
- Posts: 387
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:42 pm
Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
The fittings i saved - about 40 of them - were brand new (installed in 2006 and virtually not switched on since) common switchstart weather packs of the time - Gaash SLP, MS Light H12, and possibly a few others. Mostly Osram and GE/Tungsram 36W/765 tubes, and mostly st111 and S10 starters
They were replaced with some throwaway LED things for no reason
They were replaced with some throwaway LED things for no reason
- Kev
- Posts: 1015
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:08 pm
- Location: UK
Re: The worst quality fluorescent starter you've ever seen?
Dor does camel hospital not have any fluorescent left now???
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